Welcome to Jerusalem Studio!
This is the first show of 2015
and as usual, I have Pekka Sartola here with me.
Welcome! - Thank you.
We will continue our format
where every second time we are here at the table together,
and other times we will discuss current events in Middle East
through long distance connection.
We were on Christmas holiday for about a month
and some things have happened.
Before we go to today's topics, would you give a brief overview
what have you had in mind about these things?
Most likely it is fresh on our minds what happened in Paris and Brussels,
ISIL in Middle East and Boko Haram in Nigeria.
In Middle East we are interested in Palestinian Authority's move
to join the International Criminal Court,
with the goal to accuse Israel of war crimes in last summer's war.
These were the first thoughts that came to mind.
This is the most recent decision, only a couple of days old.
Let's look at it more closely.
It has some specific features.
The institution that turned it down before,
is now ready to approve it without hardly any changes to it.
Tell us about it, and what is ICC.
ICC is the International Criminal Court,
independent organ financed by states.
It is not part of UN and has no political ties,
at least it should not have. Some are sceptical about it.
It works independently, was formed in 2002
and investigates on juridical basis matters between the states.
ICC is not a court for fairness and relativity,
but solely for juridical facts and makes decisions based on that.
When PA was granted the status of non-member observer state
in UN in 2012,
they immediately applied for ICC membership,
in order to prosecute Israel
for war crimes committed until that time.
Their application was declined.
The general prosecutor Bensouda who made the decision then
processed the appeal also now.
When PA applied for the recognition of statehood
in UN on December 30, 2014, and it failed,
they immediately sent documents to UN Secretary General,
asking membership in ICC again,
in a bid to find protection under ICC's juridical positions
against Israel's alleged war crimes.
It is interesting that Secretary General approved it
and passed it on. It was not a cardinal error.
But he could also have declined it,
as Palestinians are not a state.
But ICC began proceedings based on their accusations
which constitutes recognition of Palestine as a state.
A determined policy can be seen in these decisions.
The same Gambian prosecutor
who did not approve the application before
approved it this time around.
So ICC will launch a preliminary examination
into last year's events in Gaza.
You said that they only process matters of member states.
But Palestine is not a state.
Does that mean that they have determined
that Palestine is a state?
Exactly. ICC indirectly recognizes Palestinian statehood.
When examining ICC's jurisdiction in this issue,
they don't have it in Judah, Samaria and Gaza,
since Palestine has no borders.
Israel is the only state in the area defined by borders.
It is incomprehensible that their application was approved
based on their earlier groundless claims.
As war takes two parties,
the other one in the conflict was Hamas,
which is part of Palestinian Authority
and forms a whole with it.
Will their crimes against Israel
also come under investigation?
Yes. Israel submitted a claim to ICC in September against Abbas
in connection with PA's crimes, of which Hamas is a part.
PA will be considered as a whole -
PLO and Fatah.
This proceeding is ongoing in ICC.
In response to Abbas's current application
Israel made another move,
adding PA's Premier Hamdallah to the list of the accused
for war crimes committed by Hamas.
Those with governing responsibility must answer for these actions.
The problem is, where does all this end one day?
It is quite a mess.
as there is no juridcal basis to launch an examination.
In addition, it is questionable,
whether ICC will be able to exaimne the whole process,
will they get access too all the evidence materials
based on which to present the possible accusations.
Israel is furious, as are the US and Canada.
They suggested to stop funding the ICC.
US does not contribute anything,
but ICC members should revise their positions regarding the court
which based on its own regulations should only deal with states.
They cannot take a stance juridically even indirectly,
as to whether Palestine is already a state.
How many members are in ICC and who are most important?
I cannot give a clear answer as I forgot to check the list.
US is definitely not a member, Canada most likely is,
as Israel asked Canada to stop funding ICC.
Quite a few Western states are members.
And not all P5+1 countries are. Russia and China are not members.
So it is not a global, international society.
The most important states do not participate.
Doesn't it seem as if they were constantly looking for things
to evoke anti-Israel sentiments?
It is definitely on the background
that they want to find global recognition
for the Palestinian state.
It is a paradox, as UN Security Council
that has a key role in these matters
should be the first to recognize a state.
Only then will the state declare its independence
and UN will approve the state's application.
At the moment the whole process goes straight to the finish line,
and it is forgotten how we are supposed to get there.
We have a difficult precedent in this case.
Many European parliaments have already asked their governments
to recognize Palestine.
Now ICC, which should remain in the bounds of international law,
especially within the bounds of its own regulations,
has decided to ignore the rules.
A very regrettable chain of events.
Let's move to the events in France,
that had the country in uproar for quite a few days
and were quite surprising.
It also hinted that it was not a single event.
Tell us briefly, what happened, who did it and on what motives.
These motives have been examined in detail during past weeks.
The perpetrators where brothers originating from Algeria
who first attacked the office of a satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo
where staff was holding their weekly meeting.
They forced a staff member entering from the street
who had a child with them
to open the secure door and got in.
First they killed the most renowned caricaturist
and the editor in chief,
and then began randomly shooting others.
Around 10 people were killed.
One of the caricaturists was of Jewish origin.
This is not mentioned often.
Police arrived. The whole process lasted 5 minutes.
They killed two police officers and escaped.
In a few days they were found and surrounded
in a small town, north-east of Paris,
in the printshop where the weekly was printed.
They had planned to wreak havoc there as well.
They were surrounded.
Police did not agree with their demands,
stormed the printshop and the brothers were killed.
Around that time there was an attack on a kosher restaurant,
and another event in Belgium.
A Jewish kosher supermarket was attacked
by a member of the same Yemeni al-Qaeda group.
He killed four customers, all Jews, and demanded the police
to free the terrorists surrounded in the printshop,
who also had a hostage.
Police did not comply
and simultaneously stormed the supermarket and the printshop.
Also the Arab that attacked the kosher supermarket got killed.
A day earlier he had already killed a female police officer in Paris.
Both parties used quite radical methods.
Studying the photos and actions of the terrorists on YouTube
I found that they were professionals. They were armed.
At least one of them had a bullet proof vest.
They also wielded their weapons professionally.
It was a planned operation.
I read somewhere that they had prepared for the attack -
for a few years. And al-Qaeda in Yemen was behind it?
Yes. They had a double motive.
They wanted to punish those
that mocked the head of ISIL al-Baghdadi,
and their prophet Mohammed. That is an old motive
and always gets a strong reaction.
The Yemeni al-Qaeda claimed responsibility in a few days.
Another Middle-Eastern group tried to take glory for it as well.
Interesting that in the Islamic world
one boosts its reputation with acts like these.
They often excuse it by saying
that their holy people such as Mohammed etc
were insulted.
It is crucial for them.
I have an impression that it is only a pretext
and their actual motive is just to attack.
It must be so. Mohammed is under special protection.
He cannot be drawn, he cannot be criticized.
Although Islam itself has done it over the centuries.
It seems to be some kind of a defense mechanism,
so that nobody would examine what Mohammed actually did
and what all Muslims take example of,
just like Koran and Sunna.
Blaspheming against Mohammed has taken proportions
as if he was a diety.
But Islam mocks Western Christianity
claiming that Jesus is Islam's second prophet after Mohammed.
No Western bishop or pope has taken a stand about it,
but instead seek cooperation and common denominators,
although the two religions are in complete contradiction.
Such threatening scenarios spread quite fast in Europe.
France has lots of Muslims
and Antisemitism is on the rise.
Soon there are no more safe countries in Europe
where Jews could freely call themselves Jews.
That's true.
That is why Netanyahu said very bluntly the next day:
"Come to Israel. This is your home. Here you will be protected."
Although neighboring states and terror groups
have harrassed Israel quite a bit.
When looking at France with its 66 million people,
of which around 6 million or approximately 10% are Muslims,
and 700 000 or just above 1% are Jews,
the gap is quite enormous and Jews have reason to be alert.
Especially in the light of recent events.
Synagogues, Jews and school children have been attacked in France,
just because they were Jewish.
We are moving 70-80 years back in time
when Nazis were around.
Your ethnic background is enough to harrass you, they said then.
US President Obama has claimed
that we are dealing with marginal groups
that should not get too much attention,
and Islam is a religion of peace. What do you think of that?
I have studied Islam enough.
I admit there are also elements for living in peace.
I believe that 80-90% of Muslims want to live in peace,
raise their children, go to work and practice their faith secularly.
But there are radical groups, and as marginal as they are,
there is 1,7 billion or 1700 million Muslims in the world.
If radical extremists form 5%, actually even more,
we are talking about tens of millions,
ready to fanatically sacrifice themselves,
whatever the circumstances, in order to get to paradise.
Your place in paradise is guaranteed when your actions kill Jews.
How can democratic European countries defend themselves
if this invasion keeps growing?
It is difficult.
For decades Muslims have been received from random countries,
and for whatever reasons.
Usually they have some vague, humanitarian reasons.
They have managed to form groups and cells,
some of which become radical and take their faith so seriously
that they begin to adhere to the teachings of ISIL or Hamas
who supposedly follow true Islam.
You can find basis for it from Koran and Mohammed's teachings.
In that sense Islam is many-faceted
and also allows for very radical behavior.
When using your math,
there are around 300 million Muslims around Israel.
5% of it is six million?
10% would be 30 milllion, and 5% would be 15 million.
There are half less Israelis.
And if all of them are extremists, the situation is quite bizarre.
That's the case. It can only get worse.
When thinking about the countries and groups surrounding Israel
and looking at their domestic polls about attitudes toward Israel,
70 - 80 % of the answers are extremely radical.
"Israel must be destroyed. Islamic regime must rule there."
Name does not matter, Palestine or something else.
Jewish democracy and elements of Christianity
must be eradicated from Middle-East.
When looking at Hamas who is part of active terror groups,
and Hezbollah in the north,
that has ties with Israel's neighbors,
what kind of danger scenarios regarding Israel do you see here?
The situation is very alarming.
On Sunday Israel had to attack
a weapons convoy heading from Syria to Hezbollah,
carrying missiles and other arsenal.
Five Hezbollah operatives got killed in the attack,
one of them an important regional commander.
Hezbollah vowed to retaliate.
They have 150 000 missiles in their arsenal,
5000 of them can reach any place in Israel.
The level of their fanaticism does not care about the end result,
but only sees their own religious perspective
and wants to destroy Israel.
When we include ISIL,
which is becoming more radical than before,
and has a following on West Bank,
where ISIL has formed cells,
the situation is very concerning from Israel's perspective.
They must continually prepare for the next big war.
Considering the short distances and scary weapons
which Iran is always happy to replenish,
it means that Israel must prepare
for the worst scenario.
Yes. I have also talked about that same dark scenario.
There are half a dozen Arab countries around Israel.
When their terror groups get missiles, which they already have,
and want to launch a blitz attack against Israel,
they will shoot 1000 missiles a day,
continuing the next day etc. That is the minimal number.
No Israeli defense shield can stand against it.
At least some of them will get through.
It means that Israel must launch weapons systems
that will take Middle East back to stone ages.
Thus we come to the situation mentioned in Psalm 83 in the Bible.
How do you see current developments in light of that scricpture?
I see things clearly moving towards it.
Considering the nations mentioned in Psalm 83,
all of which live in Israel's neighboring countries,
the least radical of them is Jordan.
But even there a strong opposition to Israel has risen
directly connected to religion, i. e. events around Temple Mount
that we have also discussed here.
They clearly see religious background.
If Israel's Rabbinate would want to build the third temple
it would be enough for Jordan to annul the peace treaty
and join the radical camp.
Hezbollah in Lebanon is already prepared. Syria is ready
as well as Iraq with ISIL,
and Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists in Egypt.
Al-Qaeda can also be found there.
Situation is getting serious.
They don't think in Israel, if the war will come,
but when it will come.
They must be on their toes and alert all the time.
Among the non-friendly and hostile we can also find Turkey,
not to mention Iran.
The statement of the Turkish president Erdogan
after the events in Paris was tragicomical.
He criticised Israeli Premier for joining other state leaders
at the Paris peace march against terrorism.
According to him, Netanyahu,
"who has the blood of 250 000 children on his conscience",
should not have participated.
But Abbas was present as well. His statistics are much worse.
Erdogan was recently expressively caught on camera
with Hamas' leader Mashaal.
Turkey's statements have become quite radical,
considering it is a NATO member, who should lean towards West.
Our half an hour filled up with so many topics again,
we can but encourage the viewers to pray for Israel.
A turmoil is stirring around Israel
and we praey for its leaders
to make wise decisions.
That's all for today. We will continue next time.
Thanks for watching!
Translation: Monika Jaaguri