Welcome to Jerusalem Studio that is produced here in Helsinki!
Welcome, Pekka Sartola, to discuss some things with me.
There is enough things to discuss what comes to Israel and Middle East.
Sometimes we look even further than that.
Today Pekka has some news -
and we don't have to go too far for it.
I was shocked to read that Saudi Arabia, -
known as a more moderate Arab state, with its religious police -
and Wahhabite Imams plans to turn Saudi Arabia into one big mosque.
The whole country will be declared a mosque, -
a place where prayers are offered to Allah.
All non-muslim worship places will be closed.
There is a couple of millions foreign workers in the country -
and 1,5 million Christians -
who have been allowed to pray to our God.
That will be denied from now on as the prayers of Buddhists etc.
Worship houses of all other faiths will be forbidden.
This is quite alarming -
as there's a lot of talk about tolerant Islam -
and even the Koran says that there's no compulsion in religion.
The current plan of the Saudis -
is a strong blow to followers of other faiths.
Do you think this could spread also to other Muslim countries?
There's always a danger that it will have a snowball effect: -
the strong stance of one will be followed by others.
Kuwait, Qatar, Emirates etc could follow the example -
or there will be a mass exodus from Saudi Arabia to these countries.
It seems there's no chance for Christianity spreading there.
It has been difficult in Saudi Arabia also until now -
it is not allowed to have a Bible or to wear a crucifix,
but this new move is quite extreme.
Finland, Europe and US are pushing tolerance -
and coexistance, -
and tiny minorities become overly important.
Doesn't this turn to dictatorship in Islamic countries?
How would our government take it if Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church
would ban all other denominations to worship and close their churches?
It would cause quite an uproar.
Lets move on to other subjects.
There were presidential elections in Israel about a week ago.
What happened and who became president?
On 10th of June, 74-year-old former Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin
was elected president.
He belongs to the right-wing camp -
and used to be considered a war hawk by some.
He comes from Premier Netanyahu's Likud party.
His word used to have a lot of weight.
Presidential institution in Israel is more symbolic.
He appoints the government and can pardon prisoners -
based on the recommendation of the Ministry of Justice.
However, Premier still has the right of veto.
Shimon Peres who's life work has been in Israeli politics -
finally retired at the age of 90.
We have discussed the relevancy of president's institution.
What are Netanyahu's views on this?
President has been a symbolic figure in Israel for a long time.
He has had to be there.
There are certain interior political agreements -
that call for presidency -
and also for the sake of the world it is good to have someone -
that is above politics.
Also Rivlin announced his withdrawal from politics.
We have also discussed Egypt and the changes happening there.
New political trends are developing there.
They also had presidential elections -
the results of which were clearer than in Israel from the get-go.
Egypt's former army chief Abdel Fattah el-Sisi -
got around 94 % of the votes. That is an enormous mandate.
But there were quite many votes that he did not receive either.
There are 80 million people in Egypt and barely half of them voted.
His stance towards the radicals, like Muslim Brotherhood -
and the Salafists, was harsher already before.
He ousted president Morsi about a year ago, -
as Morsi called to base Egyptian legislation -
on the radical Sharia law -
which would have revolutionized the structure of the whole country.
It could have led to serious economic instability.
Tourism dropped and investors wanted to leave the country.
Sisi took a stronger stance in this -
which is also reflected in the situation with Gaza and Hamas.
How has the US reacted to the new situation -
when Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood were ousted?
How has Obama reacted?
Obama's behaviour has been odd.
At first he also opposed the ousting of Mubarak, -
and now he opposed the ousting of Morsi.
He does not seem to know how to deal with the Middle-East.
This is not the only case. His insecurity has affected -
US relations with quite a few Islamic countries.
He refused to recognize the military coup -
that overthrew Morsi, -
and withdrew economic and military aid from Egypt.
That was a mistake as Russia jumped in to fill the void.
Putin restored the old Soviet-time relations with Egypt -
and offered large arms deals thus strengthening the army.
That offer was warmly welcomed.
Now that the power goes officially to Sisi, -
Obama attempts to return and patch the relations -
but Russia is already there.
It is difficult to trust Obama. He has two years left to reign -
and all the states in Middle East look further beyond his presidency.
That is to show that mistakes are difficult to correct -
and take a lot of time.
Russia already had a chance to get involved.
That is true. Two empires are fighting for their image.
The one that has signed agreements stands.
Obama's clear negative stance against el-Sisi's army -
caused a vacuum and Egypt saw that Russia is willing to jump in -
if US withdraws, and Egypt gets what it needs -
a strong army with strong weapons.
How does that affect Israel and how does it affect Hamas?
In a way it is a relief for Israel.
Their southern border from Rafah to Eilat -
is considerably more peaceful than during Morsi's reign -
when Israel was preparing the army to withstand the spreading -
of the Muslim Brotherhood's reign to Gaza through Hamas.
That was a relief from the military and economic perspective.
Israel has close intelligence ties with Egypt's current rulers -
who are committed to put and end -
to all terroristic infrastructure also on Sinai -
and prevent the smuggling of arms to Gaza.
That has considerably weakened Hamas
which can be seen in the events in Israel -
the reconciliation agreement between Fatah and Hamas.
We mentioned last time that this must have affected -
Hamas' willingness to reconcile with Fatah -
as they were in dire straits.
Correct. Their usual smuggling routes -
they got weapons and finances through was blocked.
Around 1000 tunnels got destroyed -
that were allowed in Morsi's time.
Hamas has been pushed to a corner and has to sign reconciliation pacts -
in order to get Western support through Fatah.
There's been six attempts during last seven years -
to form the unity government, all of them have failed.
You were pessimistic also about the future cooperation.
What's going on there at the moment?
Without prophetic insight I had to rely on real facts -
and it seems I was right.
The Hamas-Fatah "marriage" is already cracking up.
After first few days they were already fighting over salaries.
Hamas' former premier Haniyeh announced that Hamas is willing -
to yield the political and negotiative power -
to the new government but would keep the military power -
and their mini-army on the West Bank and Gaza.
They want to control all borders and everything about Gaza.
They would not allow Fatah's army there.
This has also affected el-Sisi
who was hoping for borders to be controlled -
by the Palestinian Authority. Hamas is not willing to give it up.
So one has political power and the other military power.
Delegating them between the two seems difficult.
US and EU have supported this reconciliation -
and once again we see, that it is only for the show.
What are the possible consequences?
USA and EU could be more consistent in their conduct.
They have said before that there are no negotiations -
with the terrorist group Hamas, but now they have changed that.
It seems it is more important to establish the Palestinian state -
with no regard how and by whom it is done.
It is difficult to understand the stance of the US.
They said 'no' to negotiations with Hamas -
as its goals and politics are to be condemned.
EU did the same, -
but both are ready to negotiate now, saying: Let's give Abbas a chance, -
while Hamas is eating away at it.
Now that I have followed all this more closely for a few years, -
it seems that there will be no solution before Jesus returns.
That is truly so.
We will see more failed attempts -
and attempts doomed from the get-go.
Perhaps there will be some kind of a forced peace, -
but it calls for serious changes in the whole region.
Let's go to another topic.
A little while ago four people were killed in Brussels.
There are a few things involved in this incident.
Would you tell us about it?
On May 24th, a masked gunman, -
wearing a cap, sunglasses, -
a hoodie and most likely a bullet vest, -
was waiting by the Jewish Museum in Brussels.
Museum guards ran to see what happened -
and he shot them too. Four people died.
The shooter put his gun in the bag and left.
According to surveillance cameras he kept his hand in the bag all time -
as he also had a handgun in there.
In case of interruptions he would have used that as well.
He disappeared for five days.
Although Belgium organized quite a manhunt, -
he was not found. A few days later
there was a regular security check on a bus in Marseilles, France.
Bags were checked and he was caught there -
with all his guns and equipment, as well as his camera.
He was identified as Algerian-born Mehdi Nemouche -
and suddenly there was a lot of info on him.
French security service had been watching him for a while.
He had also been jailed before -
and fought for al-Qaeda in Syria.
His attack was a targeted revenge executed on a day -
when Israeli troops once withdrew from Lebanon.
They obviously wanted to mark a joyful event for Muslims.
The couple that was killed -
had ties with Israeli intelligence.
Things like that happen all the time. Some people are targeted -
and at an opportune time the kill orders are executed.
Unfortunately it is difficult to anticipate this.
On the important dates for the Palestinians or the Islamic world -
the security services are always alert -
but it is impossible to watch everybody.
Unfortunately things like this happen.
Going back to Israel, which was visited by the Pope.
I don't know how remarkable it is for the world, -
but it got extensive media coverage.
What happened and how was the Israeli-Palestinian issue reflected?
It was a pro-Palestinian visit, -
clearly directed towards supporting Palestinians -
and understanding their cause.
Pope visited Jordan first, where they discussed the pursuits -
of the orthodox Judaism regarding the Temple Mount, -
and how important the administration of the area is for Islam.
They also discussed many other things -
that could be called political propaganda.
Then the Pope was flewn by Jordanian Army helicopter -
to Bethlehem, -
where they put on a proper international show.
The places the Pope visited and was filmed at -
were strategically selected, -
as for example the background picture seen on the screen, -
where baby Jesus is wrapped in Palestinians' national colors, -
and Jesus' father is wearing -
a Palestinian scarf or kufiya.
There were also Catholic nuns and munks etc present.
Palestinians want to propagate an Arafat-like idea -
that Jesus was a Palestinian freedom fighter, -
who faught against the Jews.
They consider him a prophet of Allah.
This is a strong stand against Christianity -
and the Pope did not react at all.
The Pope was also taken to the security wall, -
where texts "apartheid" -
and "Free Palestine" can be clearly seen.
These places were specifically chosen for propagandistic pictures.
But the Pope never made a statement -
to defend Israel or Christianity.
He is considered the highest representative of that faith.
It was quite a propaganda victory for the Palestinians.
Amazingly, only then did the Pope arrive in Israel.
He visited Yad Vashem, of course, and also prayed at the Wailing Wall.
He also visited the Temple Mount area -
where Palestinians had invited quite a delegation of imaams, -
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem etc -
and the Pope was briefed on the Palesitnian views.
In trying to understand the Islamic mentality, -
the Palestinians were not disturbed to shake hands with the Pope.
When a Muslim shakes hands with someone from a different faith -
he becomes defiled.
Even Shias and Sunnis get defiled shaking each other's hands.
Nobody was disturbed hugging and shaking hands with the Pope -
who represents Christianity.
The Pope also invited Peres and Abbas to pray in Rome.
Yes, and they already did it.
What would they pray together, as one prays to Islamic Allah -
and Peres most likely to the God of the Bible, as we do.
Pope must have prayed for both of them.
It seemed more like a farce to me.
If Christianity is to be represented, -
then this visit completely ignored the pillars of our faith.
It seems there's a greater issue at stake here, -
which is quite alarming.
Pope used his global position to clearly support the Palestinians.
It is true. The Catholic Church has done this also before.
A few years ago their Synod found that there is no Promise Land -
nor any chosen people anymore.
It was quite a blow when that was publicized.
We did not manage to cover all our topics today, -
but we will continue them again every four weeks.
Next time you will teach from the Bible -
about blessing Israel.
Thank you, Pekka.
Thank you, dear viewers! Stay with us!
Translation: Monika Jaaguri