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Welcome to Jerusalem Studio!
You see two men before you - next to me is Pekka Sartola
who has so far hosted the programs alone.
We have extended our air time and we will try my role
as the representative of the viewers and ask questions from expert Pekka.
- Welcome, Pekka! - Thank you!
- Before we begin talking about Bible prophecies
and their fulfillment in Middle-East I would like to ask Pekka:
You have studied these topics already for 15 years,
what sparked your interest in Middle-East?
- It is a long story. First, of course, God's stirring
to find biblical views for things.
In the beginning of 1990ies I worked in tourism with my wife.
It was the time of the Oslo peace accords
between Israelis and Palestinians.
Great concessions were made, Nobel peace prizes were awarded
and everything was supposed to be fine afterwards.
For some reason it did not happen and the blame was always biased -
the innocent Palestinians and the big bad wolf Israel.
It started to bother me. Everything must have two sides
and two views for it.
I began to study those things and sources began to open up.
People came to our Bible studies and asked for more and more studies
about correlations between Bible prophecies and actual events.
This is how we got started.
I wonder myself why did God choose me for it.
I am sure He meant someone else at first who refused.
I have experienced God's leading while doing it
also in the practical matters.
Information sources have opened up
I never thought could be possible for me to access.
- How many books have you written so far?
- 15. 16th will be published in fall 2012.
- So, one book a year? - Pretty much. Sometimes two.
- You said that God has led your time management.
This can be seen in the immense research work
necessary for book-writing.
You travel often talking about these things
but you still have time?
- Yes. I have received strength. That is most important.
Regardless of exhausting travels, after a day's rest,
I am reinvigorated. And I love this work.
The desire to search for God's truth bubbles inside me.
That is the most powerful and best in this work.
- You mentioned Israel's role,
that they are often considered God's time clock.
You have observed this clock for 15 years,
something must be happening there all the time?
- Yes. I went through some old Bible studies recently.
I take notes in order to remember what I have covered.
I found nothing that should have been changed.
The same things are going on, only at a faster pace.
New events fulfill previous ones and we could say that
increasingly bigger puzzle pieces find their positions in God's plan
both for Israel as well as the Church.
- Our topic today and most likely next time as well
is the war of Gog which is one of many.
What must one observe when studying Bible prophecies?
- Firstly, our feet must be steadfastly on the ground.
We cannot build air castles. We must be realistic and find
what have the prophets addressed long time ago.
We must remember that Ezekiel, John and others
were not able to use certain terminology
when describing devices and events of modern day wars.
They described them in their own words
according to their visions.
Matching Bible prophecies and modern day events
calls for a cool head so that we will not attempt
to predict the schedule of future events
but would focus on what is going on.
- Bible talks about Magog and Gog. What are they?
- Most clearly it is explained in Ezekiel chapter 38.
We must also use a Hebrew map
Ezekiel was referring to in those times.
The land of Magog Ezekiel talks about
and where Gog is from covered a vast area at that time,
from the Great Wall of China until the Black Sea.
Also the Skythians lived there.
Gog, the leader of the future attackers
God will one day call and tell him to go against Israel,
is clearly associated with Russia.
During my many travels to Russia I have often seen old steam engines
with big signs cast on them: "Made in Gog".
They know and profess that Russia and Gog go together.
The word 'rosh' comes from 'russia'.
That is the name Russians identify themselves with.
These are two important factors concerning the war of Gog.
- What kind of signs indicate today that something is going on?
Are the times we live in evident in the media and environment?
- We are not living in times described in Ezekiel 38-39.
These form a certain general picture. Before these events
something so radical must take place in the Middle-East
that it is also mentioned in other prophecies.
My personal position that I can also prove from the Bible
is that before the events of the war of Gog
a major war must take place between the Arabs and Israelis
that involves the neighbours of the Jewish State and Israel.
- Looking at the situation where tiny Israel is surrounded
by 300 million people inspired by the same goal,
doesn't it seem humanly impossible?
- Humanly it is definitely impossible.
Humanly it was impossible for Israel to survive the Independence War
in 1948.
They were surrounded by armies that were far superior in numbers
and arms.
They only had 50 - 60 000 barely armed soldiers.
Looking from the human perspective, no one believed
that Israel could have survived that or any other of their wars.
In the fulfillment of God's plans human contexts are secondary.
If God has decided to do something,
for example regarding Israel as the time clock, it will happen.
- What causes the intense hatred of the neighbouring countries
towards the Jews?
- It is simpler than just a conflict between Arabs and Israelis.
It is a fight between good and evil. It is about the plans of God and
the attempts of the opposing force to prevent their fulfillment.
It is the confrontation between God and the enemy of our souls.
It is difficult to find any other spiritual context.
- What are the geographical countries that participate in the war of Gog?
- According to Ezekiel's vision and the lands known to him
Gog, the ruler of Meshek and Tubal, will lead the armies.
He is some future president or ruler of Russia.
He will be joined by Iran or the ancient Persia;
in then Asia Minor or Turkey were four city-states -
Mehsech, Togarmah, Tubal ja Gomer.
They can be found in Asia Minor or modern Turkey on Ezekiel's map.
The situation has shifted.
For years Turkey was Israel's ally but during the past 6-7 years
under the rule of Erdogan the relations have cooled down.
A lot has happened and both are blaming the other party.
Turkey is becoming closer to the Middle-East countries
and is about to join Israel's enemies.
In addition Put or Libya is mentioned
which has also seen a lot happen during the Arab Spring.
Also Ethiopia or Cush is mentioned
which means Sudan who is Iran's ally
even though they follow different lines of Islam.
Both are ruled by a different radical Islamic government.
All these countries are very hostile to Israel
and participate in Gog's army.
- You mentioned the change in Turkey. Has not a similar shift
taken place in the warming relations of Iran and Russia?
Surprising turns have taken place simultaneously.
- True. Russia and Iran are surprisingly close to each other,
although not religionwise.
At the moment 40% of Russia's population is muslim
but several dozen million people think in line with the Iranians.
Iran and Russia have enjoyed warm trade relations for decades.
Russia is building Iran's power plants,
participates in their nuclear program
and together with China defends them in Security Council.
Even these relations point clearly to a biblical culmination.
- What comes to the domestic war at the moment in Syria
China and Russia declare in the Security Council
that Syria's interior affairs must not be interfered with
and the ally relations seem to be strengthening.
- That's correct.
Even though after the disclosing of the recent massacre there
Russia distanced itself a little and did not support Syria
as strongly as before.
Security Council has condemned the violent massacre
which has not happened before.
If the current situation continues the regime in Syria might change.
- What do you think about Iran's nuclear program?
Are they working on a nuclear weapon and when is it going to be ready?
- Iran's nuclear program began already during Shah's rule.
After building for eight years the nuclear plant in Bushehr is open,
they have plans for another one.
They have an agreement with Russia to build 5 more plants.
In addition Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.
It is the mutual conclusion of all Western intelligence organs.
Iran has come quite far with it.
If nothing happens this summer, Iran will become a nuclear state
which will complicate things.
- Do you see any correlation here with the war of Gog?
- Not as much with the war of Gog as with the conditions
leading to the war of Gog that is the events of Psalm 83
I have already discussed before.
If Israel must venture on a preemptive attack
against Iran's nuclear plants which seems highly likely
Iran will pull along Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria.
Egypt's reaction is difficult to predict
due to the current presidential elections.
It is estimated that the candidate of the Muslim Brotherhood will win.
In any case the situation is very negative for Israel.
All the minute details seem to be heading towards a stage
before the war of Gog,
i.e. the war between Israel and its neighbours.
Iran will most likely not be an active participant in it.
They will support Israel's neighbours with funds, arms and intelligence.
- Looking at the current situation,
what has prevented Israel from attacking Iran until now?
- Mostly the presidential elections in the United States.
Obama has demanded Israel to refrain from attacking
before Obama's campain is over.
6th of November will show who will continue - Obama or Romney.
Obama fears that Israel's preemptive strike
might destroy his support numbers
due to his inability to prevent Israel's attack.
Israel has declared they are not interested
in the US elections but the security of their country.
- Could Iran take advantage of this situation?
- That's exactly what they are doing. With the continuous stalling tactics
they have managed to delay things.
They increased their diplomatic say by allowing IAEA inspectors in;
they show on the international arena that they are having negotiations
and are interested in progress and peaceful solutions.
At the same time they continue to enrich uranium till 93-94%.
- You mentioned the war between Israel and its neighbours
before the war of Gog.
Could the current situation in Syria ignite it?
- It is quite possible. Syria is definitely a factor
as together with Egypt they are one of the more important Arab states.
Everybody participates in the events of Syria and Egypt.
We are talking about the Sunni counter-reactions in Syria
provoked by the Muslim Brotherhood.
They are also a ruling ethnic party in Jordania
where the recent demonstrations
call for the replacement of the new Premier
and to end the peace treaty with Israel.
It is easier in Lebanon.
Hezbollah is able to involve Lebanon in the war all by itself.
Iraq is a bit more moderate with dominating Shia Islam,
having the same background with the Muslims in Iran.
They have a shared goal regarding Israel: to destroy it.
The whole situation is moving towards a culmination.
- Is the main thing uniting the rivaling Sunnis and Shiites
the destruction of Jewish people?
- They have two main religious differencies.
Firstly, Shiism and Sunnism which consider each other heresies.
They have two main enemies one of which is Western Christianity.
Islam does not mainly fight as much with the Jewish State
as against Christianity.
They consider us heretics, polytheists etc.
USA is considered the cornerstone of world's Christianity.
USA, the big satan, supports Israel, the small satan.
These two have close ties, they must but decide
which is more powerful. They do not dare to attack the US.
Israel is closer, it is easier to threaten it.
- Iran's missiles can reach Europe.
Doesn't it already threaten also other countries?
- Definitely. Although not yet the US.
Iran does not dare to launch a missile war.
Iran's arms are so closely watched on the Gulf at the moment
that preparations for any missile launch would be detected.
They would be intercepted even before they are launched.
Iran must use its allies - Hamas in Gaza who is not yet ready,
and Syria and Lebanon who are ready.
- When could the events of Psalm 83 begin?
- We are talking about the next major war between Arabs and Israelis.
After that the situation might move towards alignment
with Ezekiel's prophecy about the war of Gog.
I do not want to predict when it might happen
but the settings are moving towards it -
events in the Arab world, regime changes in Libya
and Egypt, where the toppled president is facing a court sentence.
If the same formula repeats itself and Muslim Brotherhood
comes to power in Syria, situation there will become similar.
One of the main foreign policy goals in the Brotherhood's charter
is the destruction of Israel.
Muslim Brotherhood has the 60% majority in Jordan.
Conditions are moving inevitably towards the Arab-Israeli war.
- What is EU's position regarding these topics?
How has it developed lately?
- EU as a whole is unfortunately against Israel.
There are some groups with sensible positions
that understand Israel but they are in minority.
At least 3/4 support Palestinians.
Fighting for Palestine in UN and EU
they unconsciously support the plans to destroy Israel.
Should Israel not comply with all their demands immediately
they will apply sanctions and try to pressure Israel that way.
- Is Finland's position similar or different from EU's?
- There was cause for more concern during the previous president.
Niinistö has not yet clearly declared its foreign political stance
regarding Israel and Palestine.
I am looking forward to hearing it and it seems,
that it might be more positive than that of our former rulers.
- Our viewers are interested in facts about Israel and Middle East.
Many are praying for Israel and hope for God's will to be done.
- This is the mission of Christians. We must not support those
who ponder negative decisions regarding Israel.
We must stand for the truths of God's Word,
then also we will be a majority.
- Thank you for participating in our first 30-minute program.
In four weeks we will continue the same topic -
what is the war of Gog.
Thanks for being with us!
Translation: Monika Jaaguri